Speaker placement tips

I just complete my system collection from scracth after sold off my stereo system few years ago. I looking for speaker placement guru out there to provide tibs or even helping hand on the speaker placement. Any CD that can be used to fine tune the speakers position?

I did get very good result from my previous system when i adjust the speaker position, but when some area improve, some area will compromise, for example, improve 3d when i move few inch forward, but lost out on bass etc..


My system
Marantz SA11 S1
Audia Flight one intergrated
Sonus Cremona
All stock cable, wish to get the system up first then slowly tune the system using cable.

You can try using Track 14 from this CD

can you description how this track help sepaker placement. i do have a disc which it has left right center signal test, out of phase, soundstage test where a man walking around the room with a gong but cant find the CD already..

The descriptions are in the CD liner notes. Place the speakers where the sound is the brightest. That should be the best placement.

A good point to start is the Cardas speaker placement method.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup

This setup yields good results in most cases but if you find it to be still lacking you can always adjust the placement of speakers to your liking.

I've found the discussions below as very useful especially fafafion"s recommendation:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1217765941&openusid&zzFafafion&4&5#Fafafion

ryder wrote:A good point to start is the Cardas speaker placement method.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup

This setup yields good results in most cases but if you find it to be still lacking you can always adjust the placement of speakers to your liking.

This method not suit my roon well, my room is 11*18 leaving only 5feet apart between the speaker. but i'll try with 6feet apart and see what happen.

to Sanguine

I still remember my previous system can produce very good 3d soundstage when i adjust it bit by bit, but it took me almost few month to get the best spot. i try to place the speaker to where my old speaker was b4 but not able to get the same result.

I have a similar room size to yours at 11'x17'. Rooms with narrow width will always be difficult to tackle as most speakers would sound horrible with close placement to side walls due to collapsed soundstage although a few may still sound acceptable. A way to tackle this problem is to treat the walls. For small rooms, diffusion can be useful to control reflections and scatter the sound waves uniformly to obtain a big 3D sound.

Sometimes it also depends on the design of the speakers itself as some speakers image better while some don't image too well. Depends on what sound you are looking for. May I know what were your previous speakers?

Yes, what speakers were you using before and were they rear ported as well? The SF should be able to give you the 3D sound in an enclosed room. Have you tried to move them in small increments as u did with your last speaker or you trying to find a quick fixit?

If you are moving from a two way to the cremona the last position may not work due to the added bass drivers of the cremona and double rear ports.

I think you may have to go thru the trouble of moving them incrementally. U may also want to experiment with some mid frequency bass traps for the corners behind the speaker if you have any or can borrow some. For heaven sake dont go out and buy any at this stage. I found in the past mid bass can cloud imaging and "air" which gives the 3D effect.

rgs

My old speaker even bigger than the SF, the JMlab Mezzo Utopia but it front port if i still remember correctly. looking for short cut way to fine tune the speaker position if possible but look like got to go thru the moving again.

Another problem for me is i place the speakers at living room(with sliding door closed will become dedicate listening room), so acoustic treatment like base traps is not an option.

Another problem for me is i place the speakers at living room(with sliding door closed will become dedicate listening room), so acoustic treatment like base traps is not an option.


if that is the case you should really consider;

1.acoustic system resonator-1 platinum and 1 special gold would be enought.



2.Harmonix room tuning disc.

3.synergistic room tuning devises.

all the above will give you different sound ,but without the bulk of room treatment traps.

There is no excuse for not treating the room though;you will NEVER the best out of your speakers IME.

If bass exccess is your problem,you could start with the Brass lens made by VIRTUAL DYNAMICS.

Potted plants at the corners , oil painting at first reflection points,silk rugs at the space between yr listening chairs and speakers are also as good as ugly room treatment devises

I know the cause of the problem already, long story...

Btw where can i get the following?

1.acoustic system resonator-1 platinum and 1 special gold would be enought.

2.Harmonix room tuning disc.

3.synergistic room tuning devises.

i suggest you try the cableco.

you could also try happy audio in penang /al audio in k for harmonix

try using the "Emperor throne" CD for doing speaker placements!
u can get the cd from Interglobal at most CD shops.

To me speaker placement is the single most important aspect of setting up a system. Its both a art and science.
I have over 30 years experience selling, designing, installing and setting up some of the very finest in hi-end audio systems. This is truly my passion.

Where to start. Its important to understand what your trying to achieve with speaker placement.

With proper speaker placement you are trying to get the closest to flat freqency responce as possible. As we all know the position of the speaker in the room will effect the bass responce in a big way which in return affects the midrange and high frequencys.


* I dont use the spikes on the speakers at first which allows you to move them around at will. The key is understanding that when you put the spikes back on the speakers, the bass will lean out a bit which in turn makes the speaker sound leaner, less full, and generally slightly more forward sounding because of it. So get as close as you can to the sound you want knowing that when you put them on spikes this will occur.
* The distance from rear and side walls affects the bass responce and soundstaging. Closer to the walls increases bass output. I find that back walls effect the low bass more and the side walls effect the upper bass region. So by determining what area of the frequency your needing to improve will determine the distance from that wall.
* because the acoustics in the room affect the sound, I always suggest making sure you start with no additional room treatments. Start with a room that has minimal room treatment and just whats diffenantly needed in the room.
* You will find that when placing speakers you are getting close to the ideal location when the room has the least amount of effect or coloration in the sound. It is very hard to tell with room treatment devices what is doing what.
*The good old 1/3 rule is a great starting point. Use tape on the floor and tape measurers measuring distances from walls, to help guide you through the process.
* Focus on bass responce first, then you will need to make small adjustements to get the proper soundstaging.

I have a great story I have to share with you: My boss and I were doing a stereophile show in LA were we had two rooms, I had my own, and my boss was setting up a mega dollar system and presenting with the big boys in the audio industry. They were all there helping him set the system up. I had the more modest system, and had my room up and going in few hours and sounding great. (which I got one of the best sounds at the show by the way against all the mega dollar systems lol) The next day, my boss comes in and with the look on his face I could see he was really frustrated and scared. He says Kevin please come in and help me its just not sounding right. Well I walked in, and the room was surrounded with ASC traps, and you couldnt tell at all what was doing what. First thing I had asked everyone to take a trap and move it into the hall. Took us a good 20 minutes to get all the stupid traps out of the room lol. Within 15 minutes I moved the speakers and had them dialed in, eveyone said damn ! Then I said one by one bring the traps in and place them as needed.

Youd be amazed that when you have the speakers ideally placed how little room treatment you will need.

Toe in: I have found most speakers sound best with alittle toe in. Ive only setup a few were they sounded best straight on. Thiel for example one of the few speakers in general I find sound best to me straight on. The tweeters he uses tend to be little to hot on axes. Were as Aerial acoustics need a fair amount of toe in. The type of crossovers used will also determine that aspect.
* toe in will effect mostly the midrange and upper frequencys as well as the soundstaging. More toe in will give you more center presence and with to much toe you will get less soundstaging outside the speakers.

You will find that the ideal toe in will give you give you good center image or mono content, with the widest imaging outside the speakers.

Sounds easy lol well its not but take your time and be patient.
Any questions feel free to drop me a line. hmmmisthatright@gmail.com
Kevin

Hi kevin, u are god man!!!!!! I understand what u are trying to teach here!!!! Keep it up man!!!! Difficult to find a helpful person like u.......

Great discussion here ...
Probably its better if someone post their equipments and room dimensions here and hope Mr.Kevin guide us more ... in that sense we may capture more info / experience in some sort of practical way
Thx in advance

Here are some care with setup and positioning/placement of speakers which can change the final sound from ho-hum to hi-fi.
Disclosure: Extracted from magazine What HI*FI? UK (May 1999).

This What-HiFi article is only good as a rough starting point. There are too many enviromental variables to factor in and each listening area has to be fine-tuned over a period of many months.

It's not uncommon for speaker placement and listening positions to keep changing over the years as part of the audiophile game/hobby/whatchamacallit.

Yes, it's true.
The diagrams are merely some general guides to position the speakers.
There is no hard or fast rule to it due to other environmental variables which may factor the final sound.

In addition, people do have different acquiring taste and listening preferences.
So lets our ears and 6sen be the judge.