Malaysia - Negeri Sembilan Audiophiles Group

car o scope wrote:I would say some handicap should be given to the Jap right before the start. The Brit might be a bit slow in terms of loading time and song selection but it has more body and presented us an easy listening session. The gain is a tad lower and need to crank up the volume. If the timing was right, the Brit would have compared against the more dynamic American. Anyway, we can roughly guess the outcome even if the timing wasn't right.

We did switch back to the Jap for the final few tracks. There is nothing wrong with the Jap and it just sounds thinner than the Brit. Given the price gap, the Jap is a very good buy indeed. After that night, I have started to search for one or two albums that were played that night.

Which Albums? To some certain extent I do prefer the Japan Malaysia made

cyh wrote:Hi rsbn,
How's the 'swiss killer' cd player doing? Do need to reconsider the swiss player? Or do you have any regrets selling your americano?

Yes. I regret but bringing "swiss killer" back. It is waiting for return ticket. The Sony is still my hero.

rsbn,

I will look for HK Danny Boy's 2nd album to complete my collection.

So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

JediSavant wrote:So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

How's the Sbn Italian Pizza and "Spaghetti"? Looks like you managed to speed back on time and increased your LPs collection again.

mmmm..after americano, swiss & you still prefer Sony . Ai yah! better go with the 'black magic' Luxman....
Will try to get cheap but good vinyl for you to select if you opt for black magic. As for cleaning records...I heard someone here are providing this service for around RM3

JediSavant wrote:So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

Yea Jedi,
We try to be a bit 'discrete' here. Shy that we actually play with very modest gears...

car o scope wrote:

JediSavant wrote:So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

How's the Sbn Italian Pizza and "Spaghetti"? Looks like you managed to speed back on time and increased your LPs collection again.

FuYong Pizza very very good actually, as was the espresso... nice little gem you guys have there! The Spaghetti a'la Fukkienato con Salsa Nera was also excellent, especially when enhanced with crostino di lardo...

and yes, picked up some jazz, soul and uh oh, yea yea Tori Amos... no saliva singers!!

cyh wrote:mmmm..after americano, swiss & you still prefer Sony . Ai yah! better go with the 'black magic' Luxman....
Will try to get cheap but good vinyl for you to select if you opt for black magic. As for cleaning records...I heard someone here are providing this service for around RM3

Ahem, service is at RM3.50 but customer must bring beer and corn chips with mexican salsa to qualify...

rsbn589 wrote:
Yes. I regret but bringing "swiss killer" back. It is waiting for return ticket. The Sony is still my hero.

It seems the "Swiss Killer" tag might be a little bit too heavy for it to carry. Bear in mind that this machine couldn't even make it into the room. So, it should be one or two rungs below the rests that reside comfortably in the room. Anyway, what's your opinion on this machine?

cyh wrote:

JediSavant wrote:So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

Yea Jedi,
We try to be a bit 'discrete' here. Shy that we actually play with very modest gears...

Nothing to shy about ... we all play our gears to our own means & satisfaction right ?


Some people can use spare floorstanders as corner sound diffusers & room treatment. Some people also can use "best speaker in the world" as computer desktop speaker.

& Jedi is always one the lookout for black piring one .... Rain or shine, sure will go Amcorp to kutip kutip emas.

JediSavant wrote:

cyh wrote:mmmm..after americano, swiss & you still prefer Sony . Ai yah! better go with the 'black magic' Luxman....
Will try to get cheap but good vinyl for you to select if you opt for black magic. As for cleaning records...I heard someone here are providing this service for around RM3

Ahem, service is at RM3.50 but customer must bring beer and corn chips with mexican salsa to qualify...

But if you bring some exotic Russian merchandise along.... the cleaning service is free... and more!

So.... what is this Swiss Killer?... FM Acoustic? Daniel Hertz?... that last one technically Swiss, even if 'designed' by an American, namely, Mark Levinson, the man, not the brand....

mugenfoo wrote:

JediSavant wrote:So many different subtle codes in the NSAG...

Yea Jedi,

Nothing to shy about ... we all play our gears to our own means & satisfaction right ?


Some people can use spare floorstanders as corner sound diffusers & room treatment. Some people also can use "best speaker in the world" as computer desktop speaker.

& Jedi is always one the lookout for black piring one .... Rain or shine, sure will go Amcorp to kutip kutip emas.

Only kutip some Cornflake last weekend!!...

Swiss- Studer D730

'Swiss killer'- Sony 'studer look a like'

Americano- Proceed CDP

Aiyah Max! Need to come out with a NSAG lingo book!

BTW what's 'cornflakes' pulak!?

Nothing to shy about ... we all play our gears to our own means & satisfaction right ?

Yea Mugen, also modest means & satifaction too!

Sometimes, the regulars in this thread also confused by the codes. There were a few times where I also need a few minutes in order to tune to the right frequency.

Here are the photos pinjam from some other websites.

Cornflake = Tori Amos' Under The Pink album, containing the hit song, Cornflake Girl...

cyh wrote:Swiss- Studer D730

'Swiss killer'- Sony 'studer look a like'

Americano- Proceed CDP

Aiyah Max! Need to come out with a NSAG lingo book!

BTW what's 'cornflakes' pulak!?

Nothing to shy about ... we all play our gears to our own means & satisfaction right ?

Yea Mugen, also modest means & satifaction too!

Really need to come up with a book with all the NSAG's codec. Wong Suk already having a hard time to decipher those codes. Unc Jo also Lost in Translation. Now, even some of us also in 'Holland'

Woi ? How come suddenly my name pops up ? Tenaga decided to change the electric meters in my Taman yesterday. We were given the 'story' that all houses more than 15 years old needs to have our meters replaced. I think it is an excuse to put the new electronic meters in without protest from houseowners. I have been hearing horror stories of how these new meters over-reads. The notification was vague - basically we need to be home the whole saturday as they say anytime between 8am till 5:15pm. And they came around 4+pm. Took less than 5 minutes to replace the meter.

Question : how many persons are required to replace one Tenaga electric meter ? Apparently it is a whole -team-. One person jots down the old reading. One takes out the meter. Another puts in the meter. Yet another wires it up. Finally one more person writes the old reading on a sticker and puts it on the new meter. Now I know why Tenaga needs to raise electric tariff, got lots of staff to feed ! I am waiting till end of this month to see my monthly bill. I have a few friends who actually experienced -lower- billing amounts after their meters have been changed. Maybe I might be similarly lucky though most of my friends warns me to expect a higher billing amount. It sucks to pay so much for electricity especially for a supply where the voltage fluctuates from 245 to 229 volts within the space of 3 hours.

Sorry for the side-track. You need a special thread to document your secret NSAG codes ?

"Swiss Killer" - He is heavy...

"Americano Killer" - He ain't heavy, he is my brother

Ding ding ding... tomorrow menu is DAC. Food suppliment by Tubey Wong. Initially is at the Reds field but my second thought that perhaps at Kuala S. To add liu, Rogers 11ohm vs Rogers 15ohm can be arranged for extra time

An interesting listening session.

rsbn589 wrote:Ding ding ding... tomorrow menu is DAC. Food suppliment by Tubey Wong. Initially is at the Reds field but my second thought that perhaps at Kuala S. To add liu, Rogers 11ohm vs Rogers 15ohm can be arranged for extra time

I foresee this will definitely roll into extra time already.

It was a cool night and what's better than being accompanied by two pairs of LS3/5a and some DACs after such a long break. Transporting the LS3/5a from one place to another is no slouch as they can fit in nicely into a small box.

As I was expecting the usual suspects, I was surprised as I have not seen the pair that was fitted in the box. The box is unpacked and out came a pair of "Little Gold Tag" just as how the owner describes them.



Initially, we popped in Shelby Lynne's Just A Little Lovin' for our listening session. However, we discovered that the recording actually loses definition at certain points. Sigh.. Therefore, we decided to change to other CDs.

After testing few tracks from Danny Summer's em2 and Linda Ronstadt's Round Midnight albums, the "chef" swapped his resident LS3/5a with the "Little Gold Tag" (LGT) LS3/5a. Personally, I wouldn't say that this is a comparison as the prices are not in the same range.

The resident pair gives us a very comfortable presentation and very fine vocals just like other LS3/5as. The LGT gives us a more delicate vocal and can immediately feel the smoothness of the overall presentation.

The night also comprised of some DACs and we settled for the latter unit for its clarity and details.



While fiddling with so many things, we hardly notice that we have already shot past the full time. Hence, the call for the final whistle and the LGT goes back nicely into the small box. Another Friday night beckons.......

htkaki wrote:Really need to come up with a book with all the NSAG's codec. Wong Suk already having a hard time to decipher those codes. Unc Jo also Lost in Translation. Now, even some of us also in 'Holland'

HALO htkaki, when I am quiet, I am most dangerous ! I am mapping all the secret codes in NSAG.

I am around continue to read this thread as well as some others in HF4S. Post less because there are already enough contributions here.

I am glad rsbn continues to share his collections, one of key reason that draw me here.

Keep up the spirit NSAG!!

Jo Ki

Jo,

Make sure you don't confuse yourself halfway through the mapping process.


For those of you who are reading these posts, here are two more closer images of the above mentioned LGT. Enjoy!!

On the topic of LS3/5a, I hope you guys do not mind I join in after observing from the sideline as spectator.

Here is another pair (my friend's) LS3/5a driven by Prima Luna Prologue Premium push-pull monoblock to chill out. Any tips to improve are welcome.

Hi Mikapoh, I have never heard LS3/5A driven by Prima Luna Prologue Pemium PP, would appreciate your opinion of how the sound is like with.. perhaps comparing other amps?

CoS, if I am confused, would appreciate you in guiding me to NSAG's porridge. Hope I could make another trip there when the match is right.

Jo

Unc Jo,

When the match is right..... Hmm.

How about a few selection of LS3/5A against Harbeth P3ESR? We can possibly get our hands on the Harbeth. However, we need rsbn to lug his Leak mono to do the job.

We have to set a perfect Fri night / weekend afternoon for this showdown. Apa macam for this match?

Joki, I suppose you are able to tell what brand is the LS3/5a from the photo. Anyway, we are not so fortunate to have many types of amps to try and experience. Having said it, I have listened to a couple of LS3/5a using ss amp here, and thought that these tubes amps driving them sounded the best even just under running-in period.

As expected, the overall sound is on the warmer side. As myself owns a pair of Harbeth, I would say the vocal is very delicate and neutral. I'm quite surprised given the small size, the sound has more bodies and also ability to throw out a very lively sound that one could imagine. However, I could detect some harness towards the highs, probably due to Version 2 character? Still running in? Empty stands?

Playing music with quicker tempo and you can sense they find it tough to cope. Maybe I'm getting used to the PRaT character. However, the taste suites the owner very well as his music preference is mostly on vocal based. Honestly I'm quite impressed too.

Oh, would like to publicly thank you guys on behalf as we have been following your tips such as no toe-in, 2 feet from side walls, using silver cables etc. They really work. He is now a happy man and feels no fatigue listening to it for hours compare to his previous ProAc! He is eager to get more tips from you guys especially Joki on the cones under the speakers :-)


Just my take on the sound and may differ from others.

Dear All LS 3/5A owner, I hope u all won't mind me asking this question because this pair of speaker is suppose to be a BBC standard monitor speaker n weather is from rogers, harbeth, chord n many more speaker manufacturing company don't u think they should sound the same?
If everyone of this brands come out with a different sound then we should not call it as a BBC standard don't u think so?
I don't mean to step on anyone toes but the word standard has to mean something n to me if is a LS 3/5A they should sound the same to men with no less.
Thank you

htkaki wrote: we need rsbn to lug his Leak mono to do the job.

My honor and am eveready

alfred wrote:Dear All LS 3/5A owner, I hope u all won't mind me asking this question because this pair of speaker is suppose to be a BBC standard monitor speaker n weather is from rogers, harbeth, chord n many more speaker manufacturing company don't u think they should sound the same?
If everyone of this brands come out with a different sound then we should not call it as a BBC standard don't u think so?
I don't mean to step on anyone toes but the word standard has to mean something n to me if is a LS 3/5A they should sound the same to men with no less.
Thank you

Even the BBC standard spec has allowances for a certain tolerance value.

loudspeakers, like most things in this world are never built to be perfect clones of each other.

There will always be slight variations and also certain "individual flavours" which is why people still like to compare various generations of LS3/5a speakers.

Consider the latest "LS3/5a V2" model from Stirling. It also has its own sonic signature as it is no longer using the vintage Kef drivers of the old generation.


So, to the question of whether they should sound the same ? The answer is a "Yes & No":

Yes, that they should have its LS3/5a signature small-monitor sound with the famous midrange clarity and you also won't get the low bass extension and dynamics of larger speakers.

No, because each manufacturer takes a slightly different approach in building LS3/5a. Some differences are more obvious that others (ie, cabinet bracing & thin-wall construction methods, etc...).

Another point to note is that even the BBC's "LC3/5a" spec has been revised over time*, hence different generations of LS3/5a speakers would definitely carry a different sonic signature.


*

Spoiler:

htkaki wrote:Unc Jo,

When the match is right..... Hmm.

How about a few selection of LS3/5A against Harbeth P3ESR? We can possibly get our hands on the Harbeth. However, we need rsbn to lug his Leak mono to do the job.

We have to set a perfect Fri night / weekend afternoon for this showdown. Apa macam for this match?

HTKAKI, if you can get hold of a pair of Harbeth P3ESR, I will definitely come visiting you. Could I get the owner to come to the listening comparison I am trying to stage for LS3/5A Club in January? Tell him that it will be the most fair event - staged in venue and use system that is set-up totally by 3rd party in single blind test.

You got my attention, mouth drooling thinking of the fish porridge!

Mikapoh wrote:
...snip..
As expected, the overall sound is on the warmer side. As myself owns a pair of Harbeth, I would say the vocal is very delicate and neutral. I'm quite surprised given the small size, the sound has more bodies and also ability to throw out a very lively sound that one could imagine. However, I could detect some harness towards the highs, probably due to Version 2 character? Still running in? Empty stands?

Playing music with quicker tempo and you can sense they find it tough to cope. Maybe I'm getting used to the PRaT character. However, the taste suites the owner very well as his music preference is mostly on vocal based. Honestly I'm quite impressed too.

Oh, would like to publicly thank you guys on behalf as we have been following your tips such as no toe-in, 2 feet from side walls, using silver cables etc. They really work. He is now a happy man and feels no fatigue listening to it for hours compare to his previous ProAc! He is eager to get more tips from you guys especially Joki on the cones under the speakers :-)

Just my take on the sound and may differ from others.

Hi Mikapoh,

Thank you for the report, appreciate it very much!

Stirlings V2 holds the greatest difference among the rest in LS3/5A family, particularly in its high frequency and continuity elements. It is not saying that is it bad but just different.

Doug has close relationship with Cicable Audio in Germany who makes external crossovers for LS3/5A using premium parts, which I think there is some technology transfer in the V2. The loosey cabinet using thin-wall screw-back cabinet construction method found in old BBC version is also used in the V2. Although many in Europe think this kind of cabinetry has good effect on sound, I don't quite agree on this point.

LS3/5A can handle pacey music if the given parameters allow it. The most common problem found lies in the mounting of LS3/5A on stands using Blutak or the like; Blutak "holds" down the cabinet, which is one essential part to the overall voicing of the speakers, and disturbed the performance. If I am right, do pay attention to the mid-high frequency range even on simple vocal rendition tends to sound congested and overlaid and lacks transparency. Pushing up the volume and at high amplitude, you will also notice, apart from more acute mid-high congestion distortion, you will also noticed mid-low lacks resolution.

There are some good ss amp sounding good into LS3/5A that can rival valve amplification, provided the impedance are matched well enough. I tends to suggest your friend to try out some vintage valves like what rsbn is using to know its truer potential.

JoKi

alfred wrote:Dear All LS 3/5A owner, I hope u all won't mind me asking this question because this pair of speaker is suppose to be a BBC standard monitor speaker n weather is from rogers, harbeth, chord n many more speaker manufacturing company don't u think they should sound the same?
If everyone of this brands come out with a different sound then we should not call it as a BBC standard don't u think so?
I don't mean to step on anyone toes but the word standard has to mean something n to me if is a LS 3/5A they should sound the same to men with no less.
Thank you

Hi Alfred,

Indeed you raised a good point here. However, the difference among different makes of LS3/5A we speak of, is really very small. Only on close A,B comparison this is apparent.

Speaking of difference, from a different angle, may be I could illustrate how closely matched they are... I could pick Harbeth's left channel and match it with my Rogers's right channel and they form a seamless stereo pair without our ears complaining.

JoKi

Unc Jo,

We shall come up with a good date. For NSAG, Friday night is good. For weekend / Sunday special, I need to ask those fellow members first.

I also need to get back AN-V silver interconnect first. Rsbn already on full standby. As for the owner......
Will the P3ESR owner please stand up? Please stand up! (Better be on stealth mode)

Gentlemen, can we fix a date?

mugenfoo wrote:
Even the BBC standard spec has allowances for a certain tolerance value.

loudspeakers, like most things in this world are never built to be perfect clones of each other.

There will always be slight variations and also certain "individual flavours" which is why people still like to compare various generations of LS3/5a speakers.

Consider the latest "LS3/5a V2" model from Stirling. It also has its own sonic signature as it is no longer using the vintage Kef drivers of the old generation.


So, to the question of whether they should sound the same ? The answer is a "Yes & No":

Yes, that they should have its LS3/5a signature small-monitor sound with the famous midrange clarity and you also won't get the low bass extension and dynamics of larger speakers.

No, because each manufacturer takes a slightly different approach in building LS3/5a. Some differences are more obvious that others (ie, cabinet bracing & thin-wall construction methods, etc...).

Another point to note is that even the BBC's "LC3/5a" spec has been revised over time*, hence different generations of LS3/5a speakers would definitely carry a different sonic signature.


*

Spoiler:

Thank You for the sound yet informative reply Mugenfoo.

Only one small correction, all LS3/5A cabinet are specified and no one is allow to change it. There is no bracing used in the construction. Simply; 7 layers Birch ply for all sides, front & rear baffle using 9 layers Birch, fillet use Beech solid wood. Sides are heavily damp using bitumen sheet.

Nasal sounding? Now where do they hear this for years I cannot figure out.

JoKi

htkaki wrote:Unc Jo,

We shall come up with a good date. For NSAG, Friday night is good. For weekend / Sunday special, I need to ask those fellow members first.

I also need to get back AN-V silver interconnect first. Rsbn already on full standby. As for the owner......
Will the P3ESR owner please stand up? Please stand up! (Better be on stealth mode)

Gentlemen, can we fix a date?

Hi HTKAKI,

I am alright with Friday night. Please do not make special arrangement because of me. We can workout a good night on Friday that suits everyone in NSAG. I love to have a chance listening to P3ESR in controlled environment, if possible, I would like to invite the owner to the club's forthcoming event on Rogers LS3/5A 60th and 65th edition listening session, and convince the owner to bring his Harbeth.

Thank you very much for your invitation. Can I buy you porridge this time round?

JoKi

Maybe they listened to Andy Lau's song lah

htkaki wrote:Maybe they listened to Andy Lau's song lah

Aiyo! You are going to offend Andy Lau fan-si here!

How true, then that would makes LS3/5A sounds like any other bookshelf

Better to listen to Jacky Cheung

Now, we need to apply for the 'release form' from the owner.

Just finished my music session, Eric Clapton "Slow Hand" pin me onto the seat from start to finish.

Joki, many thanks for your valuable advice especially on the stands mounting. For now it will be logical for him to use cones than blutak to rest on the speakers stands. Anyway I have informed him after some set-up tips from Htkaki. He appreciates that.

It will be great to try out few vintage valves but as I said we do not have such luxury of sharing gears together at same venue! I envy what you guys are doing so far. However, I feel that the Prima Luna with EL34 tubes are doing justice to Stirling sound. The midrange is smooth and opened up nicely. In fact, I've advised him to go for original version of any lS3/5a but they are very rare in the market....Haha.

I agreed that all speakers sharing BBC heritage have that close resemblance of the mid-range character albeit not so very identical.

Joki, exactly which date is your coming LS3/5a club event? Are Rogers LS3/5A 60th and 65th edition only featured in the event? Any chance to happen here in cats city? Haha.



Thanks.

Mikapoh wrote:
It will be great to try out few vintage valves but as I said we do not have such luxury of sharing gears together at same venue! I envy what you guys are doing so far. However, I feel that the Prima Luna with EL34 tubes are doing justice to Stirling sound. The midrange is smooth and opened up nicely.
Thanks.

I find that PP tube amps particularly with 16ohm output tap match extremely well with LS3/5A particularly the 15 ohmer. If he likes EL34, try the amp with Mullard 5-20 circuitry, with tube rectification. IMHO.

rsbn589 wrote:I find that PP tube amps particularly with 16ohm output tap match extremely well with LS3/5A particularly the 15 ohmer.

Reminds me of the single ended amp that we have tried to pair with the LS3/5a not too long ago. Just couldn't get the power to drive the LS3/5a well. On top of that, we used the 8 ohm tapping since it doesn't have the 16 ohm tapping.

jokiarch wrote:CoS, if I am confused, would appreciate you in guiding me to NSAG's porridge. Hope I could make another trip there when the match is right.

No problem. Will try to reduce confusion in the future. Apart from porridge, there are also some good choices. For a shootout that involves many candidates, a good and detailed plan is necessary.

PP or push-pull provides a substantial increase in output over single ended. A pair of 300Bs driving a channel would give around 16watts vs a single 300B punching out 8w.

I would imagine a 20-40 watt push pull, say EL34 based to provide a sweet drive for them LS3/5s....

I need to get back my PP for some exercise.

rsbn, I received a call from Mr JBL just now to check on a player. He is really on buying spree.

Wah htkaki! Maybe we will all get a call from Mr JBL for some 'new' listening experiences! Hahaha

Hi Joki, understand that due to unforeseen circumstances the 3/5a shootout was postpone. Hopefully we can do something here and put it back on track?

Due to year end work load and new year preparation, was quite busy, day & night. Regretted not being able to make for the DAC shootout. Knowing what Tubey Wong have at home, I should have been there but couldn't. Next round maybe?

Mikapoh wrote:
Joki, many thanks for your valuable advice especially on the stands mounting. For now it will be logical for him to use cones than blutak to rest on the speakers stands. Anyway I have informed him after some set-up tips from Htkaki. He appreciates that.

It will be great to try out few vintage valves but as I said we do not have such luxury of sharing gears together at same venue! I envy what you guys are doing so far. However, I feel that the Prima Luna with EL34 tubes are doing justice to Stirling sound. The midrange is smooth and opened up nicely. In fact, I've advised him to go for original version of any lS3/5a but they are very rare in the market....Haha.

Joki, exactly which date is your coming LS3/5a club event? Are Rogers LS3/5A 60th and 65th edition only featured in the event? Any chance to happen here in cats city? Haha.

Thanks.

Hi Mikapoh,

The Rogers comparison listening event is scheduled in January, but exact date has yet firmed. I had my wife made 20 odd masks for blind test arrangement. It is to be done in KL unfortunately. May be one day I will stage something in Kuching. It is good to share among friends so that we know what each has to offer before deciding to take the plunge.

Do try to lift LS3/5a clear from its stands and let the cabinet free to hear the truer colours of the speakers. Initial perception tends to be negative because you would feel there is slight lost in mid-low density. However, on closer observation reviews there is better continuity in the sound with more homogeneity in its bandwidth.

JoKi