Re: Rega - discussion thread

[ryder]

Funny that some folks describe the glass platter+felt mat giving a harder/brighter/splashy sound. I find Rega TTs(P3-24, P5) to produce less detail and subdued/rounded leading edge when compared with some other TTs, even with the glass platter on board. In other words, the Rega TTs with glass platter sound less bright and hard ie. softer and more organic when compared to higher end turntables that offer higher degree of detail and transparency.

To each his own I guess.

[wingman]

Hi All...

Thanks...CM / SF.

The bakelite platter is made out of hard resin based plastic material, another cost cutting measure, I would presume. Sonic wise...not sure

To me the "Glass" and Acrylic" are good in their own respect and my perspective is that either one of these platters are suited to certain types of music...instrumental on a "Glass" gives you the sharpness ( the tings and pings ) and vocal on "acrylic"will sound well rounded. (not the pitchy vocal like some of the locally recorded music CD's)

From reading the various contribution from different forums, what I can conclude is a well setup ( with the right upgrades ) P2 with a RB250 /251 tonearm could match a standard P3-24 and the possibility to outperform it should not be ruled out as well.

There is a much respect for the RB250 / RB251 compared to the RB300/ RB301 tonearm or some of the higher models. If there is a handfull that a raving about the RB2 series then its not something to worry about but there is more then handful that are raving about the tonearm. Possbility its the simplistic design thats hitting the right notes.

Am keeping an open mind and view.

End of the day enjoying the music the way you prefer should overrule. But taking the path in tweaking is enjoyable as well.

cheers

[mugenfoo]

Funny that some folks describe the glass platter+felt mat giving a harder/brighter/splashy sound. I find Rega TTs(P3-24, P5) to produce less detail and subdued/rounded leading edge when compared with some other TTs, even with the glass platter on board. In other words, the Rega TTs with glass platter sound less bright and hard ie. softer and more organic when compared to higher end turntables that offer higher degree of detail and transparency.

To each his own I guess.

Most of the "loss of fine detail" is due not so much from the glass platter, but from the standard felt mat which actually slips and loses traction when the stylus exerts a retardation force (friction) on the spinning LP.

This might have been addressed if one were to use a weight clamp on the Rega, but not sure if the Rega's bearings can bear the extra weight or not.
Otherwise other problems like rumble and bearing friction noise would creep their way onto the stylus needle as well and add on like salt and pepper on top of the music.

The felt mat is great for DJs and scratch work, but bad for serious hifi listening.

[hasnul]

Any of u guys fitted Denon DL-103 MC to their Rega's ? Any shim needed ?

[mugenfoo]

Any of u guys fitted Denon DL-103 MC to their Rega's ? Any shim needed ?

Have done an alignment job with this combo recently, the DL-103 fits nicely on a RB-series tonearm without much fuss.

[hasnul]

Any of u guys fitted Denon DL-103 MC to their Rega's ? Any shim needed ?

Have done an alignment job with this combo recently, the DL-103 fits nicely on a RB-series tonearm without much fuss.

Ahh.. Good !! Thats means no need to buy those expensive shim/ spacers.

[hasnul]

Now the issue of record clamping. Any of u guys using it ? Was it worth the investment ? Any audio improvement besides adding more weight to the bearing ?

[kamen555]

Now the issue of record clamping. Any of u guys using it ? Was it worth the investment ? Any audio improvement besides adding more weight to the bearing ?

I use a record weight on my Rega P3, and it helps with details and bass. Tightens the sound on my rig. But, as mugenfoo has pointed out, have to check the weight whether it will affect the platter, bearings and all that...

[adrian4454]

Yes, I also using a record clamp. I did request machine shop to machine 1 for me. ~500gm. It help in tightening up the sound. It depends on your setup, you may like or dislike the sound u get.

Again, it will certainly put more pressure to the bearing. How well the bearing can take it, and how long will it last, it is unknown. But I guess, if your weight is not anything greater than 600gm, you should be safe for 10~20 years of usage

[mugenfoo]

i think i might wanna buy a s/hand P2 or P3 (again) just for fun.... anyone here thinking of "upgrading" , wanna sell me your P2/P3 ?

[bassraptor]

i think i might wanna buy a s/hand P2 or P3 (again) just for fun.... anyone here thinking of "upgrading" , wanna sell me your P2/P3 ?

aim higher, lah ... how about a p7?

[WongKN]

Aiyah, this mugenfoo fella, stop wasting your time la. For your standard, it is Clearaudio Statement or nothing !

[bassraptor]

Or a Continuum Caliburn Reference. Personally, if I were as prosperous as Mugen, I'd think about a Walker Audio Proscenium ...

[WongKN]

Nah.... having one of those commercially available TTs would not be good enough for the big MF (that's Mugen-Foo for those of you thinking about other possible combinations of what MF might stand for. Please....). If I were him, I would commission someone like Frank Shroader or Peter Suchy or one of the legendary TT designers and specially design one, no holds barred, industry changing, no challengers anywhere nearby, custom turntable just for him. That TT would bear some name like Walker Audio Mugen, or ClearAudio 'The Mugen Foo Turntable', or something like that. Personalized model name some more !! WAHLAU !!!

[bassraptor]

Ha ha ... anyway, he's already into Mugenizing Regas ....

[wingman]

god sent to all the REGA owners..... .

Able to give his techie views....appreciated. Go for it....I would be glad to read your no holds barred views on a commercially available REGA TT compared to something exclusive which most of us could only dream about.

Who knows with one of "Mike Lim's" (another God sent for an average TT owner ) upgrades you might stay for life with a Rega TT.

No "pun" intended here....

cheers

[mugenfoo]

on a more serious note here .... yes, I am looking for a P2 or P3 to tinker around with.... so if any Rega P2/P3 owner is thinking of upgrading, we can "discuss" further!

[wingman]

mugen...

With Mike Lim's upgrade options most owners ( P1/P2) that I know off are looking at adding on the upgrades including me.

If I am not mistaken the P2 has been discontinued after the release of the upgraded / enhanced P1. Another lifecycle for P2.

With the little tweaks from the upgrades, there is definetly improvement to the sonics. Which is money well spent and truly satisfying for me.

Even the Planar 2/3 series is scarce in the used market now. And the selling price could be in the same price bracket as a new P1/P2. The last Planar that i saw was going for RM1K plus.

Hope you get one soon to tinker around.

cheers

[WongKN]

MF, perhaps you should post in the WTB forum so that more people will know.

[cmboy]

IMHO, if there's anything initial to be done to an old Rega Planar which haven't seen any upgrade/service is to upgrade to the new motor kit first, then do whatever the rest sooner or later.
Buy a used Planar for three figures, then upgrade this and that...it can sum up to quite a fortune spent, but then what the heck..wanna upgrade and get the best out of it...spend money lor!

[wingman]

mugenfoo wrote:
so whats the fix for the Regas that always run too fast ? (>33.333rpm)

michael lim has two types of aluminium sub-platters - one has the same diameter as the rega plastic ones i.e. it runs a bit faster than 33.3rpm and the other has the correct diameter so that it runs at 33.3 rpm.

Hi SF...

Do you happen to have a snapshot of the the two subplatter's ? The unit displayed in his blogspot runs at 33.3 rpm or otherwise ?

cheers

[sflam]

mugenfoo wrote:
so whats the fix for the Regas that always run too fast ? (>33.333rpm)

michael lim has two types of aluminium sub-platters - one has the same diameter as the rega plastic ones i.e. it runs a bit faster than 33.3rpm and the other has the correct diameter so that it runs at 33.3 rpm.

Hi SF...

Do you happen to have a snapshot of the the two subplatter's ? The unit displayed in his blogspot runs at 33.3 rpm or otherwise ?

cheers

the two sub-platters look exactly the same. the only diff is that one is 0.7mm smaller in diameter.

[cmboy]

IMHO, its a tricky issue to mod the Rega to perform at exactly 33.33rpm which is probably preffered by most purists that all LP's must be played at this precise speed and no compromise. OTH, most Rega owners generally accept the slightly inherent speed inaccuracy with the Rega and play as-is.
I think any potential or existing Rega owner better do some proper auditioning to gauge whether you'd appreciate and like performance over a wide range of music genre before attempting to change to the slower speed subplatter indefinitely. Of course I reckon its all reversible by replacing back the previous subplatter to its original state of performance. There's only so much one can do with tinkering Rega speed issues. The 3rd party sub platter isn't exactly a very cheap item and I'd rather put that at lowest priority and consider tonearm mods or the upgrade motor assembly if its still with that ancient old wobbly plastic pulley motor.
As for me, I didn't do a damn thing..just buy more records and enjoy as is, or fall back to another standby TT which is 33rpm spot on.

[wingman]

HI...

Thanks.

Plannng to get some of the upgrade parts for my Rega....lets hear the difference after adding on the upgrades.

CM...

The upgrades provided by Mike Lim is still way much cheaper than what you get from overseas.

cheers

[mugenfoo]

the best mod for a typical Rega would be the subplatter replacement (IMO of course). The damn plastic sub-platter is not really flat. Its wobbly.

And this is from direct experience with it.
Rega #1, setting it up for a friend, it was a P3/24 and the glass was wobbly thanks to the subplatter.

Rega #2, was a P2, with a wooden platter. The subplatter was also wobbly.

Rega #3, this is my own unit, another P3/24, and the damn subplatter is also wobbly.

Maybe Rega can launch a new series of TTs with a feature called the "Rega Wobble". They could market it as a special in-house secret for superior analog playback!

LOL

[car o scope]

Do Rega know about this issue? Looks like the quality of their affordable turntables have deteriorated.

[joydivision]

the best mod for a typical Rega would be the subplatter replacement (IMO of course). The damn plastic sub-platter is not really flat. Its wobbly.

And this is from direct experience with it.
Rega #1, setting it up for a friend, it was a P3/24 and the glass was wobbly thanks to the subplatter.

Rega #2, was a P2, with a wooden platter. The subplatter was also wobbly.

Rega #3, this is my own unit, another P3/24, and the damn subplatter is also wobbly.

Maybe Rega can launch a new series of TTs with a feature called the "Rega Wobble". They could market it as a special in-house secret for superior analog playback!

LOL

Reminds me of a friend who has an old Lenco and with a wobbly platter.

I think the model is 75. Is it common?

[wingman]

Maybe Rega can launch a new series of TTs with a feature called the "Rega Wobble". They could market it as a special in-house secret for superior analog playback!LOL

Possible.....u never know....

But could it be another part thats effecting the sub-platter movement .....the motor...too much of free play....or could it be the the sub-platter well....

cheers

[adrian4454]

Haha, the wobbling. wonder it is the horizontal or vertical wobble.
I guess it is very much of the latter. as horizontal one is called a run out??

My own remedy: I use a piece of paper folded to the necessary height and put in on the dippy side of the sub platter. Now it +/- 0.5mm wobbling, by own on eye judgment (haha, yes, my eye is almost as accurate as a laser).

[cmboy]

Errrr.. As far as I see mine, I don't have any issues with my sub platter that came with it, other than the usual speed issue. However, I did do a personal mod by replacing the centre spindle to a custom machined stainless steel one. Altogether with the acrylic platter I just can't see any platter wobble.
I suppose if anyone have a wobbly sub platter, Rega should be obliged to replace it. A wobbly platter isn't a good thing and playing slightly warped records may make matters worse still.
I happen to have a run out meter meter gauge (acquired from my engineering days) that can measure any surface or circumference run out but I don't have the stand to fix the gauge. This gauge will measure what your eye won't see.

[wingman]

Hi all...

CM ...if its a known issue ( design defect ) then the onus is on the manufacturer to replace the sub-platter with or without cost but you knowlah....

cheers

[cmboy]

"if its a known issue" in what sense?
I reckon any issues will have be dealt with through your dealer mostly, not with Rega direct at every instance or opportunity. Of course anyone can choose to contact them directly and whether they'll entertain your complaint is entirely at their discretion. I was lucky once they (Rega UK) responded well to my complaint and sent a small repair item package all FOC. I'll just say I was lucky. I happen to have their official service manual and there exist some items that are replaced FOC in case of defect.
As for a 3rd party sub platter, IMHO, I highly regard one particular model and its not cheap. Its that one or nothing. If cost along with instant easy purchase is your primary concern, Michael Lim's offering is a fair deal.

[sflam]

it's all about manufacturing tolerances. the problem is nothing is perfect in this world.
many audiophiles have also commented that the rega plastic subplatter is not perfectly round. one forumer said that's about as good as it gets with injection molding.
when u buy any part from a supplier, there is always a plus minus some per cent tolerance.
the question is how much will it affect the performance.

i tested a highly-regarded turntable (not rega) recently and there was some play when i pressed the platter against the sub-platter.
so it's not just rega...

[sflam]

IMHO, if there's anything initial to be done to an old Rega Planar which haven't seen any upgrade/service is to upgrade to the new motor kit first, then do whatever the rest sooner or later.
Buy a used Planar for three figures, then upgrade this and that...it can sum up to quite a fortune spent, but then what the heck..wanna upgrade and get the best out of it...spend money lor!

with michael lim's motor isolation kit, you can use the original motor instead of the new premotec motor. the old motor vibrates more but vibrations are not transmitted to the plinth because there is no contact between motor and plinth except for the belt which drives the sub-platter.

[cmboy]

I still highly recommend a change of motor if its a dated Planar 3. For one, its far improved for a number of issues that contribute to better performance. If you use the old motor, you're not going to have the slightly improved motor circuitry on a PCB (for 110V motor, NOT the new 24VAC motor fitted in the new P3-24), a new aluminum alloy pulley and a bottom thrust bearing. I've tested (experimented) the new motor circuitry from the old and the new circuitry is at its best in supressing motor vibration which is evident in older implementations. The new aluminum pulley is press fit and will not come off nearly under any circumstances, whereas the old plastic pulley has been known to work loose and cause problems. Lastly, the bottom thrust bearing is an integral part of current generation of Premotec motors. Its ironic that even if is almost the same motor for the LP12 and Rega, the Linn had a thrust bearing whereas the old Planars didn't have any. I reckon it wasn't an issue nor questioned in the good old days, I think its quite essential and helps in improving speed consistency and smoothness. I think Linn revised the thrust bearing issue at least once in the 80's as the old type wasn't exactly a smooth performer and inherently had a grinding noise. The latest motor is retrofitted with a simple ball thrust bearing. I had mine with a self designed custom made thrust bearing assembly which I feel is paying dividends in that department.
My personal advice for any old motor...bin it and treat yourself with a spanking new motor for another lease of life to the old Planar. If I had my way and with suitable resources, I would even attempt to go all the way to an extreme by building a nice heavy outboard motor pod (with a DC motor and speed control at 33 n 45rpm) placed diagonally to the tonearm column and to turn the acrylic platter. No more the rigmarole of swapping belt position to change speed either. I'm quite sure this will pay dividends.
There you have it.

[mugenfoo]

THats a good idea .. so who's selling this aftermarket stainless steel subplatter ?

[adrian4454]

Mugen, do u mean the pulley instead? Refer below:

http://lpturntables.blogspot.com/search/label/Rega

call Mike Lim...
and do report your finding if you have done something to your rega...

[wingman]

Hi All...

Anyone knows how much would a Planar 3 motor upgrade kit cost ?

cheers

[cmboy]

Hi All...
Anyone knows how much would a Planar 3 motor upgrade kit cost ?
cheers

Why don't you call Asia Sound since they're the local distributors. moreover there's other foreign websites that may offer the kit.
ML's motor pod base and SS pulley is surely of added cost to the motor department as a serious upgrade, but how much will it improve things over a spanking new motor kit that offers something greatly improved over a 3 decade design? For me, I'd put my money into a new motor kit first. I can't deny that improving the mass to the motor may be of benefit but is it worth all or a prudent implementation?, I don't have a conclusion at this moment.
Hmmm...I didn't quite realise ML had a website for Rega upgrades....
Actually my old LP12 does need a new motor too and it cost some 100UK pounds each, but since I've already done something quite significant to it, I think I'll delay that indefinitely and the Hercules II motor control is something I'd like to add on in due course. (sorry if I went off topic slightly)

Psss!...Lemme give a nice hint for better sound IF anyone like to spend some money on another serious upgrade.
Install a 230V isolation transformer (center tapped to Earth) of appropriate size to power your Rega TT and optionally to external phono stage (those powered by adapters). This does some good.
A local transformer manufacturer can custom wind to your own KVA size spec.
Don't ask me where and who does it...I think one can find them within Klang Valley.

[wingman]

CM...

Thanks for the reply.

Prefer to get it via the WEB...

cheers

[ryder]

I saw the Rega's subplatter option by Michael Lim sometime last year and thought the build quality is a bit meh compared to those offered by others. The Groovetracer's products look a lot more solid and with the current exchange rate might be a feasible alternative. However, for those on a tight budget I guess the local one should do. Cmboy is probably referring to another foreign manufacturer(probably German) who specialises on 3rd party TT upgrade kit.

[mugenfoo]

I saw the Rega's subplatter option by Michael Lim sometime last year and thought the build quality is a bit meh compared to those offered by others.

What does "is a bit meh" mean?
Specifically, the word "meh" means what ?

[cmboy]

Hmmmmm....thinking, thinking, could it mean with somewhat a cantonese tone here?

[sflam]

so whats the fix for the Regas that always run too fast ? (>33.333rpm)

food for thought:

i just read a post by a forumer in another forum abt stylus drag.
the forumer has a turntable with strobe. he sets the speed to be exactly 33.3 rpm. then when he lowers the stylus onto the lp, the speed slows down. this is apparently caused by stylus drag - friction due to the diamond tip brushing against the grooves.
his recommendation - set the speed slightly faster so that the tt spins at 33.3 when the stylus is lowered.

perhaps rega knew abt this and purposely made their turntables run a bit faster than 33.3?

[ryder]

Eh you guys sure like to pretend… the word already made its way into most dictionaries. Anyway if not sure better keep it that way. I’m avoiding strong words as the local subplatter may be highly regarded by our local enthusiasts. Mind you I didn’t use “Cheh”. I guess the meaning would be clearer if I did(this time originating from the Chinese). :-)

[cmboy]

perhaps rega knew abt this and purposely made their turntables run a bit faster than 33.3?

Do you think Roy Gandy would admit to it if asked?
IMHO, I think that wasn't an issue at all. The Rega was meant to be a budget TT, no fuss and for most purpose and intent. Its fussy people who'll nit pick the design and desire more for personal satisfaction. For those who insist on the best will just have to look to the higher and more expensive models or plainly some other make that may offer a better build.

[mugenfoo]

so whats the fix for the Regas that always run too fast ? (>33.333rpm)

food for thought:

i just read a post by a forumer in another forum abt stylus drag.
the forumer has a turntable with strobe. he sets the speed to be exactly 33.3 rpm. then when he lowers the stylus onto the lp, the speed slows down. this is apparently caused by stylus drag - friction due to the diamond tip brushing against the grooves.
his recommendation - set the speed slightly faster so that the tt spins at 33.3 when the stylus is lowered.

perhaps rega knew abt this and purposely made their turntables run a bit faster than 33.3?

Tried to add the stylus drag, it still spins faster than 33.333333, unless our power supply is not true 50Hz and the ceiling fluorescent lights are flickering abit slower than 50Hz !

Besides, different stylii should have different drag friction.


As for accepting the imperfections of a Rega, well and fine if its a P3 or lower model. But case in point, subplatter scrubbing on a P5, this is really bad QC.

Even the flagship P9 not having any avenue for speed adjustment is just simply UNFORGIVABLE as a flagship model. Don't quote me on this stand, but this point was originally brought to my attention by one well known famous local analog guru of whom shall not be named lest his name be used to lend credibility in forum opinions and other matters.


But that being said, as for the P3/24, at the prices today that Asia Sound is throwing it for .... its still a bargain! Only drawback is for the previous owners of the previous model P3/Planar3, the s/hand value would need to take a discount as well. But there is no pleasing everybody everytime.

[cmboy]

There are some fine adjustments inside the Rega P9 PSU box, but its NOT a simple user adjustment, nor was it meant for itchy users to fiddle with it. The preset adjustment pots are only for factory or recalibration should it have gone wrong to adjust the crystal frequency lock and individual phase frequency. Without a frequency counter, any blind adjustment will screw it all up. Its a little more complicated than 2 easy preset pots found on the 3rd party Linn Hercules II PSU board.

[mugenfoo]

There are some fine adjustments inside the Rega P9 PSU box, but its NOT a simple user adjustment, nor was it meant for itchy users to fiddle with it. The preset adjustment pots are only for factory or recalibration should it have gone wrong to adjust the crystal frequency lock and individual phase frequency. Without a frequency counter, any blind adjustment will screw it all up. Its a little more complicated than 2 easy preset pots found on the 3rd party Linn Hercules II PSU board.

Which proves the whole point: "No user adjustable speed options".

[cmboy]

Errr... technically not quite right, because it does have a speed switch toggle for 33 & 45. If its "user fine adjustment", then of course none lah.

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