Re: Krell - discussion thread

by azri Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:06 pm

encik bimmerman, two qs

1. the rca caps were used for the unused rca jacks rite? & u'll hear differences when u did these through other rca jack which is being used? i cant figure out the relations between caps for unused jacks & how it effects on soundstage for those being used

2. how much for a pair of caps?

tq

by mugenfoo Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:41 pm

its probably something to do with shielding out unwanted noise pickup via the other inputs.

As to how effective are they ? I got no idea ... haven't done any A/B with/without test with them. Probably no bothered either. Razz

by kowtim Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:29 pm

Hi Mr. E34

I had some guests in town today, so no chance to go back to the show. And so I'm sorry can't really help assist anyone with identifying the model you listened to.

Yeah, guess we both like the dual concentrics. For many years I have always enjoyed dropping by my friends place. He has a pair of the 15" monitor golds in Lockwood cabs. These large vintage DC's easily move a hefty amount of air, and so the sound has a certain amount of effortless and ease about it.

My feeling is that it would not be worth building a folded back loaded horn for your 8" drivers either. Lots of work and no guarantee of anything and extremely difficult to adjust things after the cabinets are "done".

Last I checked a pair of 15" gold drivers where worth 1000 pounds... so that's a bit beyond what I would be able to pay for a pair of my own...

The one thing I wish I could have heard was the Paragons. I have actually seen one... but never heard it. Not true....one more... I would love to hear would be a Beveridge setup. Some of these vintage approaches were truly fabulous.

Regards

study

by car o scope Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:36 am

I thought the caps are meant for covering the inputs from dust??
Rupa-rupanya they have other functions.

by mugenfoo Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:54 pm

i'd think that for dust-covering would be the no.1 priority . Thats why i also use them. Thats why i also buy the cheaperestest ones i can find.

by bimmerman Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:03 pm

Azri,

The caps are for unused RCA or XLR jacks. Priced around RM150 for 10pcs Gold and RM250 for Platinum.

I myself bought these caps to protect from dust and corrotion and maybe RFI/EMF since the are so well finished and cheap. Maybe mostly for the bling factor. I took the rest of the manufacturers claims with a pinch of salt.

After plugging all my unused RCA and XLR, the difference was clear and present! As i've said, I still don't believe it myself.

I have friends who unsoldered their unused jacks to keep RFI/EMV out but all it did for them was lower their equiptments resale value.

Actually i'm kinda hoping to keep this secret as i have nothing to gain but... What the heck, i feel like sharing. Anyway, the manufacturer says these caps infuse your equiptment gounding with gold or platinum. True or false? I don't know jack!

by andrelly Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:43 pm

Could be RFI and EMI shielding. However, since it is not a shorting plug, no idea about infusion to ground. We all live in an environment with lots of RFI andEMI: tv broadcasts, radio broadcasts, amateur broadcasts, cellular phones, wi-fi etc etc......that's why I put additional damping on my chassis and ers for additional shielding.......
We all have got to share bros....that's what a forum is.....
Cheers....

btw..anybody willing to send me pix of the KAV 300i innards?

by azri Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:59 pm

yeah caring & sharing..
where to buy those?

by azri Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:07 pm

u must have been busy studying & making calls (?)

by andrelly Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:01 pm

It's free bro! The best/crucial things in life are free!!! Air, water (used to be..until we pollute them hence need to play cleaning fee.... pale

), plants/trees etc etc...
Cheers....

by bimmerman Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:16 pm

Azri, I don't know who sells these in Australia. But in Malaysia I can give you a number to call.

by bimmerman Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:22 pm

I would really like to hear the B&W Nautilus and then the Focal JM Labs Grand Utopia right after that. They all deserve to be called the best but i'd like to hear them out and decide for myself.

YG Acoustics claim to have the best but I was not impressed by the YG Acoustics at the KLAV though. Blame it on the setup?

by mugenfoo Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:02 pm

i think CMY sells some brandless RCA caps for about RM80 for 12 pieces.

by car o scope Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:22 am

The YG Anat might not be suitable for such a small room.
Anyway, it might just sound good to someone else.
Different taste mar.. Smile

I spent quite a while in the Krell Evo + ATC set up room that day.

by car o scope Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:51 am

Hope the cheaperestest caps has not become cheaperest.
Hmmm... maybe I will try some of these caps next time.
Only for my Exp XX. I dont have a Krell yet. Razz

by azri Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:53 pm

encik bimmer, pm me the number
i'll be in bolehland during ramadhan

by azri Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:57 pm

blame it on the rain (?)

by bimmerman Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:29 pm

azri wrote:encik bimmer, pm me the number
i'll be in bolehland during ramadhan

Done!

by azri Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:18 pm

ok, i'll remember

telos
10pcs - gold, rm150
10pcs - platnum, rm250

by mugenfoo Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:47 pm

need to arrange one session of A/B test between KAV-300i and kAV-400xi ......

very curious to see/hear the differences.

by chua55 Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:49 pm

i would like to come, can I. I wonder if the unit has preout.

by bimmerman Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:10 am

mugenfoo wrote:need to arrange one session of A/B test between KAV-300i and kAV-400xi ......

very curious to see/hear the differences.

Even more interesting if you add the Bimmerman edition KAV-300i into the test session.

by car o scope Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:38 am

mugenfoo wrote:need to arrange one session of A/B test between KAV-300i and kAV-400xi ......

very curious to see/hear the differences.

Better still if there will be a 300iL to join the showdown.. bounce

by mugenfoo Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:57 am

chua55 wrote:i would like to come, can I. I wonder if the unit has preout.

kav300i/300il/400xi got pre-out but only single-ended. No Balanced pre-out.

by car o scope Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:03 am

There will be no antidote for me if the comparison between KAV-300i and 400xi is going to happen. Mana boleh tahan... aiksss... pale

by andrelly Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:49 am

Standard 300i may not match up to 400xi, but Improved/tweaked 300i ala Bimmerman's would beat 400xi hands down.....imho Smile

by car o scope Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:16 pm

andrelly wrote:Standard 300i may not match up to 400xi, but Improved/tweaked 300i ala Bimmerman's would beat 400xi hands down.....imho

Can tell us more about the areas of the 400xi which betters the 300i?
I would really like to know more as I have not heard of them side-by-side.. Smile

by andrelly Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:39 pm

I have not tried 400xi, but from the power supply side, it already has more capacity. Improved topology as well....Guess to really find out you got to bring it to Norman's and compare...

by mugenfoo Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:33 pm

andrelly wrote:Standard 300i may not match up to 400xi, but Improved/tweaked 300i ala Bimmerman's would beat 400xi hands down.....imho

Dun play play man... That one after tweaking, it transform into FBI already. If tweak stage-2 summore, can become MRA already.

by car o scope Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:42 pm

mugenfoo wrote:
andrelly wrote:Standard 300i may not match up to 400xi, but Improved/tweaked 300i ala Bimmerman's would beat 400xi hands down.....imho

Dun play play man... That one after tweaking, it transform into FBI already. If tweak stage-2 summore, can become MRA already.

MRA?? Wah... Shocked

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:19 am

mugenfoo wrote:
andrelly wrote:Standard 300i may not match up to 400xi, but Improved/tweaked 300i ala Bimmerman's would beat 400xi hands down.....imho

Dun play play man... That one after tweaking, it transform into FBI already. If tweak stage-2 summore, can become MRA already.

Oi Mugenphoo! You cha kau me izzit??? Shocked

Ha ha ha!!! You funny dude lah. Anyway, I donno lah, FBI or not. I oso never heard the FBI before. Sometimes I talk kok lah. Sorry hor.

Anyways, i've heard the 400Xi before and compared to the 300i it's a lot more refined. Immediately apparent is the 400xi lacking in bass but better in fine detail. But with extended listening you realise it's not a matter of bass potency or any lack in response but lack of boom and distortion that gives the impression of weaker bass. Then going back to the 300i, you get the impression that you've just switched to a massive car amplifier. The bass is potent but unnatural and boombox like.

With my non soldering, non modifying tweaks I am able to get a 400xi like character from my 300i but with more bass response than the 400xi. Midrange is free from grain and glare. Treble detail is still no match for the 400xi but it takes on a different character. Not lacking in treble but almost like EL34 treble rolloff. Hey, a EL34 with solid bass and transistor reliability why not??? It's good enough for me!

But remember, i'm listening through SF Minima Amator. So as always, your mileage may vary with other speakers.

by mugenfoo Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:21 am

what power cord r u using for your KAV300i ?

by andrelly Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:12 am

Bimmerman, change your supply caps to Blackgates, and your treble detail will emerge.....all the sand will be washed off!

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:01 pm

mugenfoo wrote:what power cord r u using for your KAV300i ?

Power cord is the Furutech 314AG. AG for silver. It's a big big improvement over my Transparent High Performance Powerlink. I may be upgrading to Shunyata Diamondback if finances allow.

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:06 pm

andrelly wrote:Bimmerman, change your supply caps to Blackgates, and your treble detail will emerge.....all the sand will be washed off!

Blackgate, Hmmm... Well i'm more of an Elnar kaki actually. But the thought of solder works on my virgin amp will give me nightmares. It will kill my resale value for sure. I dare not go there.

Anyway, I get the EL34 valve midgrange and treble rolloff from my Transparent Musicwave speaker cables. There is no sand, no veiling or muffling of any kind. All that my CD player can dish is served in full by the 300i.

I'm kinda craving for a Wadia CD player actually...

by car o scope Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:26 pm

bimmerman wrote:Power cord is the Furutech 314AG. AG for silver. It's a big big improvement over my Transparent High Performance Powerlink. I may be upgrading to Shunyata Diamondback if finances allow.

Silver?? This ain't cheap stuff. Shocked

I think I could not afford one of such exotic thing.
Now, I get the picture of the improvement that you are talking about.
This powercord is how many % of the 300i price?

by azri Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:30 pm

so, basically 400xi gives wider bandwith?

by mugenfoo Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:08 pm

on paper, yes. But who cares about 120KHz sound in which not even dogs can hear at those frequencies anymore.

and if the source is a good ol' CD, the recording process has already killed off anything above 22.05KHz so that it doesn't screw up the A/D process.

by mugenfoo Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:49 pm

save money lah .....& buy more CDs/LPs betterer.

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:28 pm

car o scope wrote:
bimmerman wrote:Power cord is the Furutech 314AG. AG for silver. It's a big big improvement over my Transparent High Performance Powerlink. I may be upgrading to Shunyata Diamondback if finances allow.

Silver?? This ain't cheap stuff.
I think I could not afford one of such exotic thing.
Now, I get the picture of the improvement that you are talking about.
This powercord is how many % of the 300i price?

It's silver coated. Yes it's veeeeery exotic and veeeeery expensive. How does RM1200 per meter sound to you? Cannot afford?? Neither can I. Ok, i'm teasing you then. It's RM120 per meter.

Well it's not the best power cord out there but it's very neutral sounding and has no sonic nasties to speak of. It's neutral and my Krell likes it. And at that price you'd be crazy to ask for more. Let me know if you need some...

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:38 pm

azri wrote:so, basically 400xi gives wider bandwith?

I have not studied the spec sheets but I don't think the 300i and 400xi have much of a difference in bandwidth. It's the sonic characters that are different. The 300i and 400xi both have different emphasis on a range of frequencies which results in one or the other sounding more bassy, more forward, more detailed ,etc.

You'd be surprised at what a graphic equalizer can do to make two different amps sound similar. But since this is an audiophile forum and I subscribe to audiophile principles, I will not recommend a graphic equalizer.

by mugenfoo Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

curious question: have u done a direct A/B comparison between kav300i and kav400xi ? Everything else being the same.

by bimmerman Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Yes, at Adelphi centre in Singapore. I was there to pick up my 300i and the shop guy tried to persuade me to take the 400xi instead. Both were used.

by car o scope Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:28 pm

Are there 2 variants of 400xi?
Because I have seen one with speaker terminals similar to 300i and another one finished with WBT speaker terminals.

by mugenfoo Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:29 am

issit ?? Wow .. i never came across it before .

Better find out if this is due to really a mid-model revision by Krell factory, or maybe some owner itchy-hand and sendiri change the binding posts .

But its quite common for Krell to do mid-model revisions or even offer retro-fits as upgrades. Just like their KRC-HR preamp. Some have the new front "facelift", or some could be the old KRC faceplate but with the internals factory upgraded to KRC-HR status.

I know there are some older NAIM owners who go and mod from DIN connectors to RCA connectors (and messing up the sound royally in the process)

by mugenfoo Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:34 am

bimmerman wrote:Yes, at Adelphi centre in Singapore. I was there to pick up my 300i and the shop guy tried to persuade me to take the 400xi instead. Both were used.

Did the 400xi sound better overall ?

by bimmerman Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:36 am

It was a brief listen but quite a marked difference. I wouldn't say the 400xi was better overall but it was leaner and cleaner sounding.

My first impression with the 300i was "car amp"! Bass seemed to dominate everything. Mid and treble was grain free but not exactly refined. Then when they connected the 400xi I wondered where all the bass went. It was a cleaner, leaner presentation with plenty of mid and treble detail. They wanted 50% more for the 400xi but my budget was already set for the 300i so I declined, parted with cash and headed back to KL.

Happy to report that I have managed to squeeze out a more balanced performance out of my 300i with cable matching. I use Kimber KCAG to bring out the finer treble details while tightening and slimming down on the bass. Next I used a combination of gold and platinum telos caps to darken the sound canvas and improve imaging.

I am very happy with the sound right now and don't feel the itch to upgrade any further. In my layman's terms I'd call it EL34 with 300Watts on tap!

by azri Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:59 am

i think that wbt speaker terminals were customed made/order

by bimmerman Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:34 pm

Yeah, perhaps one thing the 300i really needs are a set of proper speaker terminals. The standard cheapo black and red are too shallow. My banana plugs stick out 2mm when fully plugged in.

by mugenfoo Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:48 pm

Spades are the best. Banana plugs lose tension over time, and the exposed metal portions jutting out is kinda iffy, easier for accidental shorts to happen.

High end Krells only provide for binding posts that accept spades and nothing else.

Of course, worst are those spring clippy jacks that are so common with Japanese amps.

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