Re: Krell - discussion thread

[car o scope]

i think that wbt speaker terminals were customed made/order

Err.. I am not sure whether they are factory fitted or modified.
That's why I am trying to find out.
Maybe like mugenfoo said, they are doing continuous improvement to their products.
Krell might just have upgraded the speaker terminals midway.

[mugenfoo]

thats a big "MAYBE"...

Anyways KAV-400xi is obsolete. Now its just s300i or FBI for Integrated models.

[Norman Audio (M)]

i think that wbt speaker terminals were customed made/order

Err.. I am not sure whether they are factory fitted or modified.
That's why I am trying to find out.
Maybe like mugenfoo said, they are doing continuous improvement to their products.
Krell might just have upgraded the speaker terminals midway.

Guys,
As far as we can tell, since we started selling Krell in early 2006, all KAV-400xi amps shipped had WBT speaker terminals as a standard feature. There are no modifications/special requests which would make any Krell here in Malaysia different from the rest sold elsewhere around the world, save for the 240V/50Hz AC setting.

This also applies to the new S-300i. Hope this helps provide more insight.

Bimmerman,
Your listening anecdotes comparing the KAV-300i and KAV-400xi in stock form are very close to what we find as well. Great insights. Pairing your KAV-300i with Kimber KCAG interconnects is also a good choice.


Cheers,
Foong
wkfoong@normanaudio.com

[mugenfoo]

ah, the man (local Krell rep) has spoken ... ok, so now we know all 400xi comes std with WBT binding posts.

One thing i miss about the old Krells are the rock solid chassis construction.

The newer round-edge KAVs got this really resonant top plate cover that with a finger tap, will send it ringing like a dentist's drill. Dunno if this is done on purpose for any acoustic benefit but i doubt it. More like good ol' fashion $$$ savings on manufacturing i presume.

[car o scope]

Ah hah... Doubt cleared here...
Thanks..

I start to do a bit of 'homework' now.
Yup.. Still a long way to go but start 'homework' earlier coz now having that kind of fever already.

___________________________________________________________________

The KAV-300i do have sharp edges, man.
Newer Krell power amps are not like those old type with space ships design.
The old type designs are like some sort of device from the alien movie. Very 'geng'

[WongKN]

Heheheh... construction is not the only 'geng' thing about the classic Krells. In the very old days, when a Krell amp is switched on, even the 'little' KSA-80, all the lights in the room, including the air-cond will be momentarily interruprted !! For a beginner like me at that time, the 'initiation' was quite a bit alarming but eye-opening. The whole room momentarily went into darkness when the owner pressed the on-switch. I heard later Krells, like the MRAs were even able to trip the circuit breaker in an entire condominium in Hong Kong !!

[mugenfoo]

what happens is that when the old school Krell amp is powered up, the massive capacitors start to charge up at a super high rate.

Its not so much because the amp is consuming alot of power by itself, but it presents itself as a super capacitative load and as with all AC power grids, this throws the power factor (PF) off. Therefore the whole house or condo block (within the same phase) will be momentarily interrupted, due to drop in power factor from the usual 0.7~0.8 to perhaps less than 0.3 , and this is what the lights will dim, etc etc.

Even old school Gryphons do that if i remember correctly.

Ideally, a PF = 1 is best case scenario. The voltage and current sine waves are perfectly in phase. Alot of factories have PF correction systems due to regulatory requirements.

[car o scope]

Wow... These interruptions, if happened at night, people in the neighbourhood might think TNB is cutting power again. hahaha..

So, when tun on the amp, there will be a sudden surge of power required by the capacitors? That will be like sucking a hell lot of power from the available electricity?

Aikss, I wish I have learned and paid more attention in E & E last time.
Should not have slept in the class... hahahahahahaha...

[wsyam]

bimmerman...what was it that u did on yer 300i?.....just curious coz i have 1 as well....and if it worked 4 u ...i may just giv it a go

thanks..

[bimmerman]

Hi WSYAM, Nothing that involved opening it up. No soldering. Nothing that altered the KRELL DNA whatsoever.

Just 1 bottle of product from France called "huile de serpent". In English it means Oil of Snake or better known in these forums as Snake Oil.

Seriously though, no oil involved but what worked for me may not work for you. So I'll PM you a number to call. Same nice young chap who helped me find my sound. You need to tell the fellow what equiptment you're using and what kind of sound you want and he'll bring some stuff to your place for you to try F.O.C.

If you like what you hear, you buy some stuff and buy him a teh tarik. If you don't like what you hear, you may still want to buy him a teh tarik for his kind efforts and say goodbye.

You may find your sound for as little as RM30 for 2 pieces of RCA caps. That's how I started. Later I bought some power cords too.

[bimmerman]

Oh, by the way, before I got the Krell, I had Cary Audio EL34 valve monoblocks powering my Minima Amator. I gave up on the EL34 because of operational costs. But I just missed the sound of EL34 so much. Mainly the vocals dripping with sweet honey. So that was my request. To make my Krell sound like EL34. And that's what i've got now. No soldering, no modding.

I guest this is where the similarities between cars and hifi ends. With cars you want more power, power and power but with Hifi it's not about power, power, power. You stop when your find the right sound you're looking for. My search ends here.

[mugenfoo]

i like krell coz its about power & power & power and then some.

But cars need not be about power and power and power alone.
U can also do ICE, bodykits, spinning bling blings, dashboard eye candies & meter mania, etc etc etc!

So .... cars & hi-fi are actually: "same same but different also". hahahahaha

[bimmerman]

Hey Moogen! Nice new avatar pic. Is that a capacitor or torroidal trans? and from which Krell?

[bimmerman]

Ooooh a thought just came to mind since you mentioned "U can also do ICE, bodykits, spinning bling blings, dashboard eye candies & meter mania, etc etc etc on your car"

How about giving your Krell a fancy paintjob? Diamond red? Pearl white? Sepang bronze? Drill out a hole at the centre of your Krell and implant a fancy Watt meter there with neon glow? How bouts that??

To me it would be sacrilege but to each his own.

[azri]

its the same for both cars & hifis

for instance,
a person like evo x in standard form
for hifi we can say its like krell kav-300 without any tweaking

later on the evo x owner decides to lite mod a bit like open pod, better exhaust system
then we can say its like krell changing its power chord, or adding rca caps

lets not carried away by saying the owner evo x changes to bigger turbin, stand alone management, wastegate in order to gain 450hp from a 2.0l forced induction engine ok hahaha

but then theres another person whom prefer to build its own engine based on a complete v8 engine block kit to power up his shelby 500
off course theres a group of diy headers that build their own pre & power amps

lets face it, cars & hifis are those two things that divert many male attention from their wives!!

[bimmerman]

Azri, if you go that route then it would be like changing all the capacitors, transformers, modifying the circuit board, rewiring etc etc your Krell. One may end up with a Krell that sounds like a Karaoke BMB. For me, buying a Krell is buying into the engineering knowhow that went into my Krell and I don't want to undo any of that.

But changing a power cord alone would be akin to using better fuel. Regenerate your own AC is also akin to using even better fuel. Once it sounds right to your ears you have to stop or get carried away and risk an over analytical sound. You tune your Hifi to get the correct sound staging, imaging, detail, etc that you want and stop there when it's right. More and more power may undo all of the above.

For a car, more power is always welcome and you can never have enough power until you torque steer into a brickall. (like i did in a 911 at sepang. no brick wall luckily)

[azri]

so its basically the same

car being modified, tuned to perform better,
so is hi fidelity, tweaked to perform better

[bimmerman]

Yes Einstein theory of relativity applies to everything and everything is related.

Of course modding is the same for everything. Mod your PS2, mod your car, mod your hifi, mod your house, mod your body... But the nett result we want to achieve from modding should not be the same for everything.

Had an uncle who modded his heart. Why? Because he wanted to avoid cardiac arrest and live longer. Then this chinese chick modded her eyelids and why? Don't want to look like china mari. Then cousin joe modded his kancil and why? Wanted to annoy his neighbour with a louder exhaust. Then bro rempit modded his moped and why? So he can do superman and can scram fast fast!

alas i gently matched some cables, changed some fuses and added some accesories to my Krell and CD player and why? To reduce RF noise, clean up the AC supply, improve transparency, detail, warmth etc etc but mostly to find the sound I'm comfortable with. Yes, modding is modding but perhaps the difference in modding hifi is knowing when to stop. Michael Jackson started modding and didn't know when to stop! I thought he looked best in Thriller.

[azri]

im thinking of a 250 watter now, why? haha

[bimmerman]

250Watt Krell? Might want to look at upgrading your speakers as well. Consider the Focal JM Labs Grand Utopia. I like!!! But a 250watt Krell may not be good enough...

[azri]

i'd rather spent on dastek unichip than going for krell 250 watter hehe
there will be some high end power amps for sell from time to time
once i saw one 250 watter sherwood, but what a shame it didnt last for 2 days
seller end early on that item after receiving good offer hence the $0.99 starting bid price.. darn!!

still doing some research on options, the tube pre is doing good
i feel it need a higher watter to bring the signal to a better listening tune

[mugenfoo]

u ain't heard nothing yet until u've heard a 300+Watter Krell

Something like a KSA-300S and you'd know what is a Krell all about.

The 200 watter and below Krells only give u a "sneak preview" to whet your appetite .

[mugenfoo]

Hey Moogen! Nice new avatar pic. Is that a capacitor or torroidal trans? and from which Krell?

[azri]

i agree.. its just that i'm not ready to spend that much

[car o scope]

Hey, talk about this kind of amplifier 'horsepower', jangan main main with Krell.. They are like beasts on steroids... Really no slouch...

[azri]

you mean horny horse?

[mugenfoo]

you mean horny horse?

Errr.. you got a fetish for Horses ?

[mugenfoo]

mebbe this thread should be merged with the KAV-300i thread ...

[bassraptor]

I had a KSA-300S once ... ah, what a brutal beaut it was, to be sure. Then I sold the goth and years later, got an FPB200 ... it was like moving from the USS Enterprise to a cruise vessel. Ah, those old Krells sure kept you on your toes.

[bimmerman]

you mean horny horse?

Errr.. you got a fetish for Horses ?

Horses and Sheep

[car o scope]

I double checked to topic title when I saw the latest postings...
Confused for a while...

[bimmerman]

Yes, you have reached the fetish forum... Kindly state yours.

[car o scope]

Aiyerrrrrrr...... Very geli leh...

Back to Krell....
What's the difference between KSA and FPB?
All power amps not same one ah?

[mugenfoo]

So whats the equivalent of the Evolution series now ... ?

Luxury sailing yacht ? hahahahahahahaha

[mugenfoo]

same same lah .....

like proton, honda, toyota, mitsubishi.. all also same same but different also lah ...
hahahahahahahahaha

[car o scope]

KSA-300S to FPB200 wor.. 300W --> 200W...
sudah korang satu ratut Watt??

[car o scope]

There are so many power amps from Krell.
Some of them really never seen before.

The Krell Power photo that you are using is like an engine bay, resemblance of BMW M5... M Power!!

[bimmerman]

Which M5? E28, E34, E39, E60?

[car o scope]

E39...

[bassraptor]

That's alright, I sold the FPB200 too ... now it's a McIntosh MC402 ... 400 watts of old-fashioned goodness ... ... it's like getting onboard a Vulcan spacecraft ... all about zen and the state of being fulfilled ...

[andrelly]

Wow.....from Krell to mcIntosh......aren't they on the opposite sides?
You get a Krell if you wanna be 'blasted' with sound......mcIntosh if you wanna to be 'soothed' by the sound......maybe I should put my MC2205 back into service!

[car o scope]

Krell really cannot give out soothing sound?
The McIntosh is 400W.
So, now the 300-->200-->400W per channel.
Powarrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[mugenfoo]

That's alright, I sold the FPB200 too ... now it's a McIntosh MC402 ... 400 watts of old-fashioned goodness ... ... it's like getting onboard a Vulcan spacecraft ... all about zen and the state of being fulfilled ...

Ini orang sudah tua already .... so go for "old style" sound. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[mugenfoo]

this one is "K- power" . not M-power.

[car o scope]

Mine no power....

[mugenfoo]

can use i-Power ... i = imagination.

[azri]

its too early for you to play around with viagra bro

[bimmerman]

It's never too early for viagra dude. In todays working environment full of stress and psycho bosses, erectile dysfunction is common among the young working class. Not implying anyone is working class but young and dysfunctional is common among our age group.

Ok, i've got a group purchase deal for i-Power. Taking orders now...

[bassraptor]

If you've heard an MC402 in action, even with a passive preamp like a Promitheus TVC, you'll understand why ....

andrelly ... come on, man, get your mac back in the game!

[bassraptor]

So as not to distract from the Krell thread, I've started one for McIntosh:
https://www.hifi4sale.net/equipment-discussions-f6/mcintosh-do-you-have-one-or-more-t2659.htm#8555

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