Re: Krell - discussion thread

[Johan]

Amazing! This is the first time in my life I am hearing a fuse can cause to equipment abnormal heat up. Generally a fuse is made of a tiny wire inside a glass or ceremic capsule, however the semiconductor fuse may differ a little but no matter what... how much heat can these fuses dissipate to cause an amplifier to heat up abnormally? Surely Krell is hiding something.

[mugenfoo]

Whats there to hide ? At least they are being responsible and issuing a recall to protect consumer safety.

If you happen to be a certified electronics designer or in the electronics profession, perhaps you can share some more in-depth info.

[Johan]

It is good for Krell to recall but saying fuse is the culprit is something to wonder really

[mugenfoo]

It is good for Krell to recall but saying fuse is the culprit is something to wonder really

Obviously its the fuse right ? Coz they are giving replacement fuses back.


If it is something else thats faulty, does it seem logical to replace the fuse istead?

[bassraptor]

What some may be attempting to imply is that there is an insidious conspiracy to recall these products on the pretext of a faulty fuse, conduct some major surgery inside to prevent said products from exploding in their owner's face, put in a new fuse to show it was just a fuse, and send it out again, saying the matter has been rectified. ha ha ....

Sound like a good old them-vs-us conspiracy movie, no?

[WongKN]

Look guys, read the recall notice CAREFULLY. The recall procedure is simple and straight forward.

1. Contact Krell giving your serial number.
2. If recall applies, they SEND YOU a new fuse plus a self addressed envelope.
3. If you return the envelope, they give you a US$100 voucher as gratiuty for the recall.

Now, do think logically and carefully. WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS can this procedure hide ? Other than the original fuse simply being of the wrong specs. Krell never touch your amp. They don't even get to see your amp at all. Just verify your serial number vs a database and send you a new fuse if applicable. Then give you money somemore.

Of course I can't discount Krell having found a new way to 'remotely modify' your amp using a new fuse. If that is the case, then I would buy a new Krell straightaway because they sure have found a fantastic new technology !! LOL !!

[bassraptor]

There we go, conspiracy theory busted!!! Unless there's some nanotechnology in them new fuses ....

[Johan]

Fuse will never cause an amplifier to over heat. It is a circuit protection device meant to open circuit when over current flows in due to short circuit or other type of fault that caused excess current inflow to the circuit. There are a variety of fuses available however a designer may make mistake, due to insufficient/overall information of each components' behaviour in his circuit at certain conditions at the time of his design process, in selecting a suitable fuse for his circuit. The protected equipment may function normal without any signs but over a period of time when the device is in application some symtoms would surfaced somewhere that made Krell realised the inaccurate protection in those models they mentioned for recall. Also over a period of time some material in the fuse may deteriorate due to improper manufacturing by the fuse manufacturer. Of course a re-known company like Krell will not admit the amps were inaccurately protected, it may make them shy, but they simply will say something like 'over heating' that will prompt the user to quicky apply for recall. A fuse will produce heat when it is opening due to over current but this heat is only temporary, for a few seconds, in a small confined space. I simply will not accept that fuse can cause an amplifier to over heat because it simply defy the nature of fuse itself. A large semiconductor fuse of perhaps >300A rating may produce enough heat even in normal operation that would cause an amplifier to heat up. Does those amplifier on recall has such a large fuse? Ok guys I close my case here.

[WongKN]

My advice to you, based on a quarter of a century being an audiophile, and especially from the benefit of sharing/learning from the experiences of friends who have spent half a century or more as audiophiles. It is very beneficial to have an open mind. Never be very sure of anything just because theory says it should be so.

[sprout]

Hi to all,

Stumbled accross this site and thread trying to find a download of the manual for a 300iL just purchased secondhand today.

It will come with the manual but wanted to read one while I wait so any help with a link would be appreciated

The seller contacted me tonight AFTER I had paid to point out that the remote control did not work on testing just before the final box up.

Now he says he has never used the remote in five years. He changed the battery but still no joy.

He is the second owner, original was in the USA.
He had it voltage changed in the UK by Krell at a cost of £500 GBP

I am wondering if something could of been disturbed when this work was xarried out?

Any thoughts other than a duff remote?
Will ask him tomorrow to see if the remote has an output using a camera to see the IR

Any help or thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[bimmerman]

There should be 2 buttons on the remote marked pre and cd because the Krell remote is common for the KAV series amplifiers and cd players. Did you try pressing the pre button first? Sometimes I do have to press the pre button to get it working again.

[mugenfoo]

Yes, press the PRE button to get the remote into Amp mode.

If still cannot, then remote is spoilt and the other recourse would be to buy another one from Krell. The local agent Norman Audio should be able to help.

Otherwise, there are some reputable Universal remote controls and they might have Krell frequencies so it can operate the KAV.

[sprout]

Yes, press the PRE button to get the remote into Amp mode.

If still cannot, then remote is spoilt and the other recourse would be to buy another one from Krell. The local agent Norman Audio should be able to help.

Otherwise, there are some reputable Universal remote controls and they might have Krell frequencies so it can operate the KAV.

First, thank you for such a quick reply.

I will not receive the item for a couple of days, but will do as mentioned and leave feedback on the result, and my thoughts on the amp after a couple of weeks use. This will be my first Krell.

The manual online: The Krell site does not have the KAV-300iL it has the 300i but the 300iL does not appear in either the current or archived section? Anyone know where it can be downloaded please

Thanks again

sprout

[sprout]

There should be 2 buttons on the remote marked pre and cd because the Krell remote is common for the KAV series amplifiers and cd players. Did you try pressing the pre button first? Sometimes I do have to press the pre button to get it working again.

Repaeat reply as I could not seem to get the mutiquote to operate? probably me

First, thank you for such a quick reply.

I will not receive the item for a couple of days, but will do as mentioned and leave feedback on the result, and my thoughts on the amp after a couple of weeks use. This will be my first Krell.

The manual online: The Krell site does not have the KAV-300iL it has the 300i but the 300iL does not appear in either the current or archived section? Anyone know where it can be downloaded please

Thanks again

sprout

[mugenfoo]

the 300iL was a very short lived model.

Try referring to the 400xi manual instead. Operation should be the same except for the volume controls (buttons for 300iL, knob for 400xi).

[sprout]

the 300iL was a very short lived model.

Try referring to the 400xi manual instead. Operation should be the same except for the volume controls (buttons for 300iL, knob for 400xi).

OK, thanks for that I have located that manual no problem, still if anyone has it or a link I would still appreciate it

[car o scope]

Oh my god... Read in a website across the causeway.
How come the used units of KAV-300i and 400xi are selling at even higher prices month after month?
Or the sellers are actually trying to fish for such high prices?

[mugenfoo]

whats the going prices for the above now ?

[car o scope]

The prices shd be around RM4k for KAV-300i.
One fella in Spore selling for SGD2.5k when another guy letting go his KAV-400xi at SGD2.9k.

[kp93300]

Hi
I owned 300i and subsequently upgrade to 400i.
For both amps, a balanced output is highly recommended to show its true potential ! I prefer solid core speaker cable and interconnect for the amp.
The original remote for 400i is also rosak after a few years of use .. Try micromega remote .
The original is very very expensive .
Cheers
kp93300

[car o scope]

I guess you were trying to say 400xi as there are no 400i in the model line-up.

The remote control reliability is a normal case.
The touchscreen Krell remote is really nice..

[mugenfoo]

Micromega remote control also works coz they are all using Philips frequencies (i think) for the Amp function signaling.

Otherwise if anyone needs to "clone" some Krell frequencies coz their Krell remote has bitten the dust, drop me a PM.
Bring your own universal remote. A Logitech unit goes for about RM100 at the computer shops.

[mugenfoo]

Good info on Krell (the company).


http://www.avguide.com/forums/krell-ownership-dan-dagostino

http://www.twice.com/article/438946-Krell_Founders_Sue_To_Make_Return.php?rssid=20328&q=krell


But nothing new in the industry, all the usual soap opera dramas:
Sonus Faber
Audible Illusions
Threshold
Carver
Theta Digital
Mark Levinson
... just to name a few.

[bassraptor]

quite interesting reads. sad, but inevitable ... and typical of many industries. i hope dan triumphs ...

[jazzy939]

Really sad..

[car o scope]

That's a very interesting piece of news.

[bimmerman]

If this has anything to do with the latest batch of Krells looking cheap and soulless then I hope the D'agostinos get back their control of Krell and revamp their previously good looking product line. Otherwise, rest in peace Krell.

[mugenfoo]

so what other brand out there can give the "Krell Ommmph" if not for Krell .... definitely not a Mark Levin, or McIntosh, or even Audio Research .....

Monster, authoritative power, presence, in-your-face type of presentation.

[bimmerman]

But if the D'augustinos lose their grip on the company then it will be the end of it all. Krell will cease to be Krell. Just like the days of Apple without Steve Jobs.

[mugenfoo]

But if the D'augustinos lose their grip on the company then it will be the end of it all. Krell will cease to be Krell. Just like the days of Apple without Steve Jobs.

Steve knows he aint gonna live forever, thats why he's grooming successors in place already. Apple will go on.


But sadly for the highend hifi industry, the brand's goodwill usually follows the founders to the grave. They are not big enough to corporatise properly and run it with professional people.
There are very few exceptions to this save for some brands in the Harman group, Martin Logan and a few others.

[car o scope]

It seems there are different interests within the management board members.
If D'Agostino leaves Krell, I wouldn't be surprised.

Some other HiFi brands which carry the founders name are actually no longer being controlled by the founders themselves, right?
The founders may just set up another new company with a different name.

[mugenfoo]

If this has anything to do with the latest batch of Krells looking cheap and soulless then I hope the D'agostinos get back their control of Krell and revamp their previously good looking product line. Otherwise, rest in peace Krell.

Which batch or model of Krell looks "cheap and soulless" to you ?

Have u auditioned them as well ?

[bassraptor]

i've never seen a "cheap" looking krell, new or old. even the s-300i looks like a piece of heavy-duty industrial metal (and it ain't that bad a performer either) ....

[bimmerman]

Actually I was referring to the S-300i. Looking rather bland. Basically it's just a flat faceplace with a cutout for the LCD display and a dimpled rotary controller smack centre. Ok, arguably not cheap looking but certainly bland in my opinion. The design looks good on a FBI, solid as a bank vault! But not on the S-300i in my opinion.

I just think the predecessors look better. The KAV-300i certainly looks serious and if you're not careful it will cut you!!! How's that for serious equiptment? The KAV-300il and 400xi have their cutting edges rounded off but still nice to look at.

Performance wise, no i've not heard the S-300i but i'll bet it will not dissapoint. Dare I assume it will sound like a scaled down FBI?

I've heard the 300i vs 400xi and it's almost a night and day difference across the board but which is better would boil down to personal taste. I chose the KAV-300i because it agreed with my wallet best. After spending 1 year with it with careful matching of cabling and non-modification tweaks, I've made it sound valvy/tubey. I am pleased to say that I have still not developed an urge to replace it which really says something about it's qualities.

But I've got a feeling i will like the 300il best although i've not auditioned it and none have tuned up for sale in the used market. SS2 Adrian seems to think so too.

[mugenfoo]

Ahhh.. so which is better in terms of absolute power and dynamics ?

The KAV-300i or the KAV-400xi ?

[bimmerman]

On paper at least the 400xi is rated more powerful but it sounds too polite to give the impression of power in my brief listening test. I noticed better treble detail and transparency but most noteworthy was the bass. I'm not going to say the 400xi has poor bass response because it's just going to start a holy war but lets just say it sounded different.

To me it seemed like the 300i was more willing to pump out the bass to the extent of being slightly over enthusiastic. While the 400xi sang it as it was. And since my brief audition was done with a pair of bookshelf speakers, the bass happy 300i sounded more powerful and dynamic than the 400xi because the bookshelf speakers needed that bit of encougement in the bass department.

Swap the bookshelves for floorstanders and the 300i might turn it into a boombox. I don't know. As for me the 300i suits my Minima Amators nicely. With Kimber KCAG interconnects i'm able to get all the detail and transparency I need while taming the bass a little.

Who knows? The 400xi might do even better in my system but fact of fiction, i'd rather be ignorant at the moment and blissfully enjoy what I have right now. If I ever replace my 300i, it's the 300iL that i'll likely consider. Word has it that it combines the best of the 300i and 400Xi.

[mugenfoo]

I'm not going to say the 400xi has poor bass response because it's just going to start a holy war but lets just say it sounded different.

[bimmerman]

I'm not going to say the 400xi has poor bass response because it's just going to start a holy war but lets just say it sounded different.

If there's one thing i've learnt in my years of forumming is never never ever say the following...

1. My Krell wallups your McIntosh
2. My Nikon wipes the floor with your Canon which creams your Sony
3. Martin Logans and Magneplanars take on the sonic characteristics of a transistor radio in time
4. My BMW goes circles around your Audi which then spins out your Mercedes
5. My SR20DET smokes your K20Z1
6. My Carl's JR pukes on your Burger King
7. My Iphone terminates your Blackberry
8. Your Power Rangers are gay! My Ultraman Dyna zaps your Power Rangers
9. The 300iL wallups your 300i which then bodyslams your 400Xi
10. My God is better than your god

and what do you get???

Armageddon!!!



Disclaimer: The examples 1-10 are for illustration purposes only and in no way represents my thoughs on the abovementioned brand names, products, trademarks and divinities. Although I do like to add that I do think the Power rangers are positively sissy.

[mugenfoo]

@Bimmerman, luckily you put that disclaimer, otherwise a molotov cocktail might be thrown your way.

But hang on, didn't u previously mentioned that the New Krells are "cheap and soulless" ? This HAS to be referenced to the older Krells right ?

Disclaimer: The examples 1-10 are for illustration purposes only and in
no way represents my thoughs on the abovementioned brand names,
products, trademarks and divinities. Although I do like to add that I
do think the Power rangers are positively sissy.

[bassraptor]

Many owners of the older KAV-300i are still hanging on to them. Let's see how the 400xi ages.

I've owned a Krell KSA-300S ... impressive beast and sounded like Godzilla, too. It really kept me on my toes - I never knew when it was going to explode on me ... at least, it felt like it could happen anytime! I'd buy one again anytime if the price were right ...

[mugenfoo]

Many owners of the older KAV-300i are still hanging on to them. Let's see how the 400xi ages.

I've owned a Krell KSA-300S ... impressive beast and sounded like Godzilla, too. It really kept me on my toes - I never knew when it was going to explode on me ... at least, it felt like it could happen anytime! I'd buy one again anytime if the price were right ...

Mebbe that Sollehah-character still got one for sale .. ?

[bassraptor]

I would rather buy shares in an oilfield on the moon.

[bimmerman]

@Bimmerman, luckily you put that disclaimer, otherwise a molotov cocktail might be thrown your way.

But hang on, didn't u previously mentioned that the New Krells are "cheap and soulless" ? This HAS to be referenced to the older Krells right ?

Ahhh yes I did but I said "looking cheap and soulless" I was only referring to the aesthetics. For shits and giggles sake, can I have those cocktails anyway? Maazel Tov!

[bimmerman]

Bro Mugenfoo,

I noticed in a picture you posted some time ago you had the chance to audition the newer S-300i. How was it against the older KAV300i? Would you trade in your KAV-300i for the S300i? Does the old KAV posess a special quality that makes it a keeper against newer offerings? You know, like some people prefer to drive BMW E34 because it has a certain feel the E39 lacks. Something like that?

[mugenfoo]

no, not net managed to test KAV-300i against s-300i.... can't get a loaner unit of s-300i just yet

[bassraptor]

It's a pretty decent amp, the S-300i ... but I don't foresee KAV-300i owners rushing out to replace their old faithful classic integrated ...

[bimmerman]

To me the KAV-300i has imperfections in it's presentation. To name one, it's a little bass happy if I may but these imperfections give it a kind of old school Krell character which I might miss in the newer Krells. Some call that character Godzilla or micro Godzilla in the case of the KAV-300i.

Just like the old school Sonus Fabers (Minima Amator, Electa Amator, etc). These are highly coloured speakers which you may love or loathe but it's the colouration which gives them their sonic identity and appeal.

In my humble opinion of course.

[car o scope]

no, not net managed to test KAV-300i against s-300i.... can't get a loaner unit of s-300i just yet

Let me know if there is a loaner.

Yes. Bimmer. You got a point there and I agree with it.

[azri]

one day.. i will krell

[bimmerman]

Just Krell lah Zree, Jangan tak Krell. Life is short, make it Krell.

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